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Tammy Pettigrew | In episode 101 of Light Culture Podcast, Paper Magazine founder David Hershkovits talks with Tammy Pettigrew, cannabis influencer, educator, and brand consultant

With cannabis legalization for New York a done deal, there's an ancillary economy growing around the fringes of the industry that’s rarely tabulated and has little to do with the growing, buying or selling of the plant and its CBD offshoots. Millions more go into the economy thanks to all the creative businesses and financial spinoffs cannabis generates -- consulting, publishing, the arts, legal, fashion, finance, design, influencer, media and home entertainment among others. That's where LA cannabis fixture Tammy Pettigrew comes into the picture. Better known as The Cannabis Cutie, she’s armed with an MBA and the blessings of Snoop Dogg. We talk about her mentor Snoop, cannabis and sex, the importance of authenticity in the cannabis world and why celebrity brands don’t really cut it in the quality department.

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Q&A

David (00:00):

With cannabis legalization for New York a done deal, and its continuing expansion throughout the country moving along as well, there’s an ancillary economy around the fringes of the industry that has little to do with the growing, buying, and selling of the plant and its CBD offshoots.

David (00:21):

Along with the production side, there’s a spinoff economy, a softer side of the burgeoning business that involves consulting, publishing, art, legal, fashion, finance, design, influencer, food arts, content creation, and many more opportunities for people to find business applications and career paths, including podcasts like Light Culture.

David (00:46):

There’s no aspect of our life that’s not touched now that legal cannabis is reality in many states and countries. With New York and its advertising and marketing know-how up next, it’s expected to blow the roof off the industry. When the numbers are run on the contribution of cannabis to the economy in the states where it’s legal, it’s only based on the tax revenue generated by the dispensaries. Millions more go into the economy thanks to cannabis via all the creative businesses and financial spinoffs it generates.

David (01:23):

That’s where my guest today comes in. Tammy Pettigrew, better known as The Cannabis Cutie, has carved out a niche that incorporates many aspects of what I’m talking about. Armed with an MBA and the blessings of Snoop Dogg, she’s a fixture of the LA cannabis scene who knows a lot about what’s coming up in the future, past, and present (laughs) of the cannabis world. Welcome, Tammy.

Tammy (01:53):

Thank you so much, David, for having me. And thank you for that awesome introduction.

David (01:58):

Oh, yeah, you’re welcome. There’s definitely a lot going on and I think people are just beginning to realize what it is, especially in New York because we haven’t been open to what’s going on in California where you’re based. So, tell us, what do you, what do you see coming up for New York perhaps?

Tammy (02:18):

Um, gosh, with New York, you’re talking about the biggest, um, population of cannabis consumers. So ideally, you would like to see New York get it right in the ways that California got it wrong, so that it’s a fair and equitable market, that the people that deserve a chance at this industry get a chance at the industry. And then, obviously, um, quick and safe access to medicine in realistic roles. Um, so that’s what I’m hoping to see with New York. You guys are making a lot of quick progress and got the legislation that the people wanted. So right now, it’s, um, promising although there is, flaws to what’s going on there as well, which is to be expected, especially with prohibition and the pushback that our nation has had against this specific plant for the last 80 plus years.

David (03:11):

Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit about California, Los Angeles in particular where I’ve spent some time recently and even up north, in the San Francisco area. It seems to be out of control in some respects, not in a bad way, but in the sense that there’s so much going on, there’s so many new brands, there’s so many people sniffing around wanting to get a piece of the action. How does that feel to you? Do you feel like that’s something you can be a part of or are you a little bit more like, “Hmm, let me see, let me think about this for a minute”?

Tammy (03:48):

You know, there’s a lot that is happening and it’s exciting to see the industry growing and expanding, but I kind of just am sitting back, you know. There’s so many people coming into cannabis that don’t really even consume the plant and, I’m over kind of companies and brands that are not really interested in learning more about it. What I am interested in is seeing more equity brands. There’s a lot of communities that have been decimated by the war on drugs that, drugs continuously wins. I wanna see more dispensaries in those communities. I think California has kind of failed in that sense in Los Angeles. I think they’ve done a better job up in the Bay. I’m looking towards dispensaries that are, equitable. What about the people in the communities that don’t have the access or the equity to participate in the California legal market? In Los Angeles you need about a million to get started with anything. That’s kind of like what’s known, cultivation, retail. And for people who grew up in communities where the war on drugs was kind of the focus of, you know, the legal kidnapping of people, if you will, for the possession of certain vegetables.

Tammy (05:27):

How do these people get a fair shot because, obviously, the war on drugs did not do these communities any service? Um, so that’s kind of what I’m looking towards in California, what I would like to see happening in New York. I think Oakland did a better job than Los Angeles when it comes to that. But that’s what I wanna see. There’s a lot of people with a lot of money coming into cannabis, but, you know, what’s your connection to the culture and to the plant is what I’m looking for now.

David (05:57):

A part of your business is consulting to brands who are-

Tammy (06:01):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (06:02):

… either in the space or looking to get into the space. So what do they come to you for?

Tammy (06:08):

They come to me, really, to kind of tap into the culture, if you will. There’s so many dope people who have cannabis lines, and they may have been consuming cannabis for the last 20 years, but nobody knows that especially if you have a celebrity name. So how do we connect you to the culture? Um, well, you’ve gotta have somebody in the culture and that’s kind of what I can help with. I can help, you know, with your brand story and getting it across so that people are open to receiving it. As a cannabis community, we’re very weary of everyone who’s entering. So when you have somebody that can directly put you in front of the proper audience, I think that, is so much more beneficial than all the money and beautiful branding and packaging that you can pour into your company.

David (06:54):

So what does that mean specifically to you? Do you introduce them to people who could help spread the word for their brand how does that work, you know, just the process a little bit about, you know, the actual nuts and bolts of your operation.

Tammy (07:09):

Um, so now how that’s gonna work is, you know, it can be anything from writing and, and getting it to my media partners to kind of spread the word. And then it’s also just myself associating with your brand and your product, to bring it to the culture. It’s naturally going to fall in, at a event and people are going to naturally ask questions, “Hey, I see that you talk about this brand a lot, can you tell me more?” Or, “What happened here?” Or, “What about this product?” And then I believe word-of-mouth marketing in the cannabis industry is the best type of marketing. We are very, very connected, we’re very engaged with one another, how I consult is not a traditional way of doing business.

Tammy (07:47):

I have tried that in the past, it’s just we’re a completely new industry with a new way of doing things so we have to have a new way of doing things. So my way of how I consult is by displaying your brand where I go, getting it to my friends who are also influencers in their own rights, um, and have the ability to influence people to buy or to listen. That’s kind of how I get it done and then, obviously, I can see kinda, you know, where your pitfalls are and maybe people don’t trust your brand, so we’re gonna work on getting people to trust your brand. And again, that can be done via brand story or just association.

Tammy (08:23):

So those are some of the ways that I like to help and then if there is some kind of PR fiasco, we just make sure that we clear that up and get perspective as to why this happened and where everybody was coming from. Um, because, again, uh, our industry we can be very defensive (laughs) at times with people and their actions. All I’m trying to do is help be a leader for this community.

David (08:48):

If some brand contacted you, but you didn’t feel like they were really authentic in, in their goals, that they just wanted to have you as a face to go out and tell everybody how great they were, how would you respond to that?

Tammy (09:48):

If I don’t feel like they’re authentic and they have a real intention, I just won’t work with you. There has been plenty of instances where, you know, people are like, “Hey, here’s, here’s the money. We’ll send it to you. Where do we send it? We need you to start Monday.” And it’s just kind of like, “No. (laughs) I can’t help you.” There’s people who are actually here to be here and there’s people who are not and we can tell and I cannot sell that to anybody because it’s not authentic. I can’t make you authentic. So if I don’t feel like it’s a fit and I know that the community is not gonna react well to you, I’m not even gonna go there.

David (10:23):

Do you feel that’s common among the people who do what you do or is there, paid to play, uh, side to this industry as well?

Tammy (10:38):

I think there are people who are just here to make money and I think that’s okay and they’re willing to work with those brands. For me, I’m very purpose-driven and my goal is to help change the world and help get cannabis legalization over the line. So if I feel like you’re just a company who’s here because it’s an opportunity, uh, respect to you, I wish you the best of luck, but I’m not the

Tammy (11:00):

… consultant for you.

David (11:02):

Okay. So yeah. Let’s just step back a little bit also just to find out more about you. Earlier you mentioned, communities that were affected by the War on Drugs. Is that, uh, some place that you come from?

Tammy (11:14):

Oh yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I grew up, anyway, with such a negative connotation of cannabis because it- what it did to my community. It took away mothers and fathers from their children. It left children in foster homes or in a single parent household. Um, which is still, you’re not getting your parental attention that you need ’cause the burden is on one parent. People with records for the rest of their life who are now legally discriminated against for the rest of their lives.

Tammy (11:47):

What is being done now about my community? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. What’s happening is it’s being gentrified in Oklahoma because of this new cannabis industry and nobody cares about what was done. These laws are, the most dangerous thing about the cannabis plant. So that’s where my passion about it comes from. I see people in this industry that are like, oh, this is gang shit. It’s fun. It’s cute. But it’s like, no, actually, there are people who are still living with the consequences of decisions that they made 30 years ago. And it’s not exactly all the way cute.

David (12:22):

Did, anything like that happen to you particularly? I know you, you mentioned Oklahoma. You grew up there. I’ve- I’ve obviously heard of Oklahoma. Have never been to Oklahoma. I think most people don’t know very much about Oklahoma. And also-

Tammy (12:37):

(laughs)

David (12:38):

When you mentioned, people having their children taken away, their fathers, their mothers, and all those terrible effects. That was by the, the police, right? Not because-

Tammy (12:48):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (12:48):

… they ran away from home or, you know, that cannabis-

Tammy (12:50):

Right.

David (12:51):

… affected them in a bad way. So anyway, so just, yeah. Tell me a little bit about what’s Oklahoma’s like growing up for you.

Tammy (12:58):

I actually started in San Diego and moved to Oklahoma City as a child. And it was such a different world. But the perception of cannabis there was that it was the same thing as crack cocaine. Um (laughing), and it was treated as such. And I say, legal kidnappings because that’s exactly what it was. The police kidnapping people for cannabis use.

Tammy (13:23):

But now Oklahoma is the wild, wild west when it comes to cannabis. Which is very ironic. You can’t go more than a square mile in Oklahoma City without there being a dispensary on every corner. And there are so many people migrating to Oklahoma for this industry. People from California, Colorado, Arizona. Bringing their expertise to get into that market. So now it is a huge booming industry. But it doesn’t take away the fact that Oklahoma still has the number one incarceration rate of women. And a big part of that is because of cannabis. So it’s beautiful to see Oklahoma switch gears. But can we please release the people in prison? Um, and can we please clear the records? Because being legally discriminated against for the rest of your life, does impact generations. And we’re putting these human beings out into the world. And this is not good.

David (14:17):

It’s terrible, in fact, not only for all those reasons that you mentioned but also just eliminating some of the most creative and, intelligent people who could actually make a huge contribution to our culture-

Tammy (14:30):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (14:30):

… if they were allowed to, if they were given the opportunity.

Tammy (14:33):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (14:34):

Now also Oklahoma, I hear, is about the crypto, that it’s becoming sort of like a wild west for crypto and people setting up all kinds of new businesses and things of that nature. Is that something you’re into as well?

Tammy (14:50):

I am slowly getting into all of that. I just wanna properly educate myself before I begin. But it’s definitely an avenue that I wanna take. I think for creators, I think crypto, and NFTs are kind of the direction to go. It eliminates the middleman in a lot of stuff. And then it allows you to kind of always monetize your content no matter whose hands it ends up in. And no matter how valuable it gets down the line. I don’t know much about Oklahoma in that sense. But I’m kinda starting to wrap my head around it all.

David (15:25):

You went to the University of Miami and have an MBA from the business school there. 

Tammy (15:32):

Correct.

David (15:32):

This is something you’ve, you’ve, you think about, you know about or are capable of understanding further. So when you got- when you were in Miami, were you already on track to go into the cannabis space?

Tammy (15:46):

Yes. That was part of why I wanted to get my MBA. I knew that I was gonna go to cannabis. I just did not know how. And at Miami, any project that I could do, um, with a cannabis theme, I did. So I spent those two years educating a lot of professors, classmates, and then that kind of was like an aha moment where it’s like, hey, maybe I’ll educate. That aha moment didn’t come until a year later, uh, but I decided to start educating. And that kind of turned into my career. But I would say Miami was definitely a big moment where I was able to, flex my muscles and see, you know, challenge myself in different perspectives. Okay, how can I relate this to real estate finance? How can I relate this to entrepreneurship? How can I relate this to strategic management? So I got to have fun with that, in that realm.

David (16:39):

How did the professors or the people there respond to your interest in cannabis? Were they open to it for the most part?

Tammy (16:49):

Uh, yeah. Actually, I had many classmates who tried cannabis for the first time with me-

David (16:55):

(laughs)

Tammy (16:55):

… during that period. And I also had two professors, in particular, who I peaked their interest so much. They had no idea about the science of cannabis and the potential. So I would say all in all, it was a success.

David (17:11):

Yeah, ’cause now they’re starting to incorporate it into actual classes at-

Tammy (17:15):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (17:15):

… in universities. So it’s, it’s-

Tammy (17:17):

Yes.

David (17:18):

… really moved along quite a bit. And it is a shame at the same time that yes, we still have people, you know, locked up while they’re teaching this in school and then people are just getting rich on it.

Tammy (17:29):

Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

David (17:31):

I know you can’t really say enough about that. But it’s, it’s always, uh, a huge glaring point for me to think about. Even in New York, currently, where it is quasi-legal, you’re allowed to have possession of three joints, I believe, and smoke anywhere, cigarettes are allowed. However, there’s no- the only place you can buy it is illegally. You know (laughing)?

Tammy (17:59):

Yes.

David (18:00):

So what, what is that exactly? What kind of message is that?

Tammy (18:02):

I think it’s right on par with our nation. It’s federally illegal but, you know, on the state level, it’s legal. So we always have this contradiction. Washington DC has the same thing. You can legally possess it but it is illegal to purchase it, at the same time. So I think you get creative. You buy a $60 sticker. You buy a $60 t-shirt with the understanding that you’re not purchasing cannabis, it’s kinda being donated to you. So I think we’ve been very creative with it. It’s just kinda par for the course. There’s so much contradiction and I think there will continue to be contradiction until we have federal legality.

David (18:46):

When did you decide to be the Cannabis Cutie, which is your persona, which, you know, sometimes I feel like undersells you a little bit (laughing)-

Tammy (18:55):

(laughs)

David (18:55):

… because people might think you’re just one of those influencers that’s always just being cute on Instagram. But there’s a lot more to what you do. So when you did you decide to be that person?

Tammy (19:08):

I would say, uh, probably six months after I graduated. I had a conversation with, um, an astrologist by the name of Ricky Williams. And we were going through my chart and he was just kinda saying, “You know, you never think you’re smart enough, pretty enough, that you have enough information, prepared enough.”

Tammy (19:27):

And I was like, “Oh my gosh! He’s right!” Um, I would never lead with I’m a cutie in anything. Or that I’m super smart. So, the Cannabis Cutie was kind of born after that conversation, and then I executed the idea in, um, November 2017. And, um, it’s been up and up and up from there. (laughs)

David (19:48):

So that’s become your corporate identity. You have a website where you have classes. You have a book club. You have all kinds of interesting videos and, and things that you’re involved in. And all of it connecting somehow to cannabis for the most part. Uh, and part of it is, I mentioned earlier, is your connection with Snoop Dogg, for example-

Tammy (20:14):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (20:15):

… who I saw on video, you with him. That you’re gonna be starting some kind of a program with him?

Tammy (20:21):

Yes. So Snoop is very much a big part of cannabis acceptance, I would say. He is completely the king of cannabis, he’s tied to the culture. And he understands that there’s a higher level of information that people need to know and understand. But he also knows that he’s not the person that’s gonna be able to deliver it. And so he sees that in me, um, and is the executive producer of a show where the plan is to kinda educate the world on cannabis, the industry, business, history, and so much more. And my intention is to kinda come in and disrupt a lot of stuff. So, uh, that’s what we have going on over there with Snoop.

David (21:05):

Right. Now you’re gonna be a media personality. You’ve already sort of started that role as well. And that’s an interesting space for disruption, 100%, because it’s almost invisible in the media today. I mean, as I mentioned in my lead in, there’s a whole industry of cannabis connection media out there, whether it’s YouTube videos, emails, websites, podcasts, et cetera (laughing). But in the mainstream media, once in a blue moon. I know, in LA ’cause it’s legal maybe you see a little bit more of it. But certainly on TV, it’s almost never there unless it’s some kind of horror story of some sort. And even in New York, that- where it’s imminent, it’s still people don’t quite know how to handle it or how to, how to include it in the conversation.

Tammy (21:58):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (21:58):

So-

Tammy (21:58):

Very much

David (21:58):

So-

Tammy (22:00):

Very much so.

David (22:01):

Yeah. So is that something that you would advocate for? How would you approach something like that, let’s say if you were writing? (laughs). I know I’m gonna put you on the spot here. If you were writing for the New York Times or did a TV show or something for the New York Times, how would you discuss cannabis, do you think?

Tammy (22:25):

I would go to the basics. You know, let’s talk about how it biologically interacts with our bodies, and you know let’s talk about how important plant/human relationships are. And that plants have to make themselves desirable so that we continue to breed them and how we’ve evolved over time together, and that our relationship is important. And then I would also come from the perspective of the culture. I think a big part of the narrative in mainstream media is we’re looking at the big business conglomerates who just got here. But we’re not thinking about, “Hey, how did this plant actually survive the last 80 years?” There were people in organizations that made sure that it did, and those are the stories that we need to hear. Um, those are the people that we are closely tied to this plant, um, and help push it to where it’s at today so that the companies, like truly could, you know, be where they are and the Med Mens. We need to be talking about that. So that’s how I would come from it from that perspective. 

 

I would say this sativa and indica binary needs to stop. Uh, the THC percentages need to stop. How we are marketing to consumers is so bad. This is medicine and, you know, THC percentage is one thing, but how it’s interacting with our bodies is really what people need to understand. And I feel like as an industry we’re kind of going in a direction that’s dangerous. And what I wanna do, and if I had a show with the New York Times is I would steer us on the right path so that we’re on the same, uh, level of thinking as the scientists, the doctors and not just trying to market products to sell to make a profit.

David (24:46):

When you talk about the culture, I’m older than you, let’s say. And, you know, I remember the culture when it was something very different, the ’60s, ’70s, dead heads, stoners, and today it’s very different, right? It’s achievers, it’s, it’s all kinds of different people. A lot of hip hop, obviously rap is super important in this industry having basically resuscitated (laughs) it as an industry and as a lifestyle. Brought credibility back to, to the plants at least culturally. So-

Tammy (25:24):

Yes.

David (25:24):

… how does, how do we handle that in, in terms of the history, ’cause we have this other kind of history that people identify with and when they hear cannabis, that’s what they think about.

Tammy (25:35):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (25:36):

But today it’s a very different world. So is there a way to combine or bring those two worlds together? ‘Cause even, you know, when I met you originally at the Hall of Flowers, you could see that there were two different worlds there, right? There, they weren’t exactly all on the same page culturally.

Tammy (25:53):

Correct. Correct. I think there’s a way to show that they’re both important parts of the culture. So when you think of hip hop, you think of how in the ’90s hip hop was able to bring cannabis back to the mainstream conversation through the chronic, with Dr. Dre, with Snoop Dog, with Cypress Hill, with Pharcyde. All of that was very important. Right now we have a lot of celebrities who are entering cannabis. We have to respect the value that they bring. They have huge fan bases and they have a really big platform and they can help get us further over the line. But we have to kind of accept that they’re here and they’re a part of it.

Tammy (26:35):

And I think that we can embrace that and show that it’s tied to the history and to the culture. Now what’s not a part of the history and the culture is billionaires who probably profited off of people being imprisoned for this as well. That’s (laughs) what I don’t want to see spoken about in the culture and the history. But when you talk about celebrity, and hip hop, and music, and everything, all of that is fully ingrained into the story.

David (27:01): You mentioned celebrities and I saw, in one of your videos you discussed that with regard to Justin Bieber-

Tammy (27:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (27:09):

… coming into the space now as well. The way I read it was, you were saying that, well, you know, maybe it’s not the coolest thing in the world, but it’s probably important in terms of spreading the word about cannabis into a larger audience.

Tammy (27:27):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, Justin Bieber, he has never really shown that he’s a, a pothead, if you will. So it’s a bit confusing when he’s like, “Oh, I have a weed brand.” But what Justin Bieber did was he directly connected himself to the culture. Veterans walk and talk is a cultural story. Colin Wells is a veteran, um, his organization and why he started it is very much cannabis culture. So I think he’s doing it right. He’s not only tied to a, you know, a celebrity organization with the last prisoner project, but he is actually tied in with people who have boots on the ground and are connected to the culture.

Tammy (28:04):

So I applaud Justin Bieber for what he’s doing. Um, I think, you know, he probably couldn’t announce this any sooner because of, you know, he’s a label and a child star and there’s so much that goes into it. So I respect him for are kind of coming out of the Cannabis Closet and I respect him for partnering with the right organizations as well. So I think that’s how we have to judge our stars that are coming in hence forth. You know, what are you doing to break down the stigma? What are you doing to help the people who have been here? And I think he’s doing it and I applaud him a million percent.

David (28:38):

What about the quality of the product? A lot of people complain-

Tammy (28:43):

(laughs)

David (28:44):

… about, (laughs) about the celebrity brands that they’re not really very good.

Tammy (28:48): 

Yeah. That’s a big problem. And that’s just kind of par for the course. When you’re not tied to the culture, that’s the risk that you take. You meet somebody who grows the best weed in the world. And everybody in LA grows the best weed in the world, but you’re not actually like sure. You can make that mistake of thinking that it actually is good weed and then, you know, the rest of the cannabis community is like, “Oh, great. Another celebrity who is selling mid or mids, which is middle grade cannabis.” Um, but then you look at celebrities who are tied into the culture, like Problem the rapper, and Coffee & Kush, and that is a very good cannabis line. And the reason why Problem was able to successfully execute a good cannabis line is ’cause he’s tapped into the culture. He’s actually showing up to community events in LA, he’s actually going to real cannabis trade shows. So naturally he makes a good decision and aligns himself with a good brand. That’s the risk that you take. When you just come into cannabis and you’re not fully tied in, you make a mistake and sell mids or you do what Problem does, you meet the right people and you come correct the first try.

David (30:15):

What about a billionaire that, that we are familiar with Jay Z, who has-

Tammy (30:21):

(laughs)

David (30:22):

… come into the game now as well?

Tammy (30:26):

You know, I, Jay Z is such a businessman that I think he is on that business side of cannabis, but we’re not-

David (30:32):

He’s, he’s a business man, not a business man-

Tammy (30:33):

Yes.

David (30:34):

… right?

Tammy (30:34):

Exactly.

David (30:35):

(laughs)

Tammy (30:35):

He’s a business man. I think people who are coming in for the business side, they’re looking at the bottom line. They don’t really care about appeasing the culture or putting out a proper product. And I think that’s kind of just where he’s at. I don’t think that anybody expected Jay-Z to come out with a dank flower line. (laughs)

David (30:55):

So, uh, you’re, you don’t put him in your elite category of people-

Tammy (31:00):

You know, I have not tried his flower, so I can’t say.

David (31:04):

Okay.

Tammy (31:04):

But yeah, I didn’t expect Jay Z to come out with, you know, the best flower either. (laughs)

David (31:11):

but the most expensive flower.

Tammy (31:14):

Yeah. Now as far as de-

David (31:15):

(laughs)

Tammy (31:15):

… design and aesthetic, definitely I expected that. (laughs)

David (31:20):

That’s a whole, uh, you know, kettle worms that’s, we’re gonna be seeing more and more of with regard to these celebrity brands. Typically, I’ve heard that they don’t really do that well as far as sales go.

Tammy (31:31):

No, not on the west coast. Yeah. Not the west coast. We, cannabis is gonna sell itself. We don’t need a celebrity to sell it. We wanna know, you know, what’s the terpene profile? How old is it? Who grew it? There are growers that have reputations and we know that if there’s a certain grower’s name on it, we know it’s gonna be good. Again, people have this information. It’s like, “Oh, it’s grown by them. Ew. We don’t want that. We’re not paying for that. We don’t care if your name’s on it or not. No, gross.”

David (32:01):

(laughs)

Tammy (32:01):

And so- (laughs)

David (32:01):

Good luck. Right?

Tammy (32:01):

Yeah.

David (32:01):

They gotta hire you.

Tammy (32:01):

Well, they’ve gotta hire people, yeah. People who are tied into the community, I’m one of those people. I think, you know, Seth Rogen, I feel like there’s a lot of pushback with his line in particular. And I think had he, you know, had conversations with the culture, maybe we would’ve steered him in a different direction.

David (32:24):

Well, but he’s somebody who has been identified as a smoker. So it’s not like someone who’s just trying to capitalize on it. And, apparently his stuff is good from what I’ve heard. I haven’t tried it myself. What did he do wrong? What was the pushback on him?

Tammy (32:44):

I think he just kinda went big cannabis and, and a lot of people that know of the company that he, um, went with.

David (32:52):

Oh, I see.

Tammy (32:53):

And we know that that company doesn’t exactly grow the highest grade flower. Very much a good flower brand,

Tammy (33:00):

But it’s not the connoisseur’s first choice, and when you think of Seth Rogen, you think of a connoisseur. So, yeah.

David (33:11):

Yeah, I used to know… I do know his, uh, (laughs), well, it used to be his pot dealer in Manhattan. (Laughs).

Tammy (33:16):

Oh. (Laughs).

David (33:18):

(Laughs). So there, that’s a connection. Right?

Tammy (33:21):

Yes.

David (33:21):

Also as part of your practice, and your Cannabis Cutie website, you have a book club.

Tammy (33:31):

Yes.

David (33:32):

So why, why did you do that? And what is the content of that?

Tammy (33:38):

I read a lot of books. It’s one, one of my favorite hobbies. It has been since I was a child, and it’s how I became so knowledgeable about cannabis. And I felt like there’s so many people that would love to read books too, but, developing that habit can be quite hard. So I felt if I develop something that could hold people accountable and then we can come together and discuss, I think people would be interested in that, and it would also help my personal mission in educating the world by creating other educators.

Tammy (34:11):

And that was kind of the idea that came out of this thought process and it’s been so successful, we’re on book, I believe, eight now and there are people who have been there since book one, and now they’re turning into their own educators, speaking to their local legislators, educating on their social media channels and to their local communities. So it’s been such a beautiful thing. One of my favorite parts of my business is the book club.

David (34:38):

Which book would you say got the most reaction, positive reaction?

Tammy (34:43):

I would say that it was our first book, which is Smoke Signals by Martin A. Lee. It is a lot of ink, a long book, but it was the most comprehensive review of the history, and the social history as well in the United States.

David (35:00):

And you found that people were interested in that?

Tammy (35:04):

Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of information that we don’t know. So when we got into the nitty-gritty, it was just kind of like, um, snatching your wig. (Laughs). You were mind blown by some of the stuff that you were reading. You actually couldn’t believe it, and you started to understand where we are today.

Tammy (35:21):

We’ve been here before. There’s been so many times in our history where they kind of throw all of this cannabis knowledge that we have and they thrown down the memory hole, and then we have to constantly rediscover, rediscover, and are constantly fighting against the propaganda.

Tammy (35:36):

We kind of saw a pattern, and the next thing that’s coming for prohibition based on his book is that they’re gonna start associating cannabis use to communism, and I thought that that was very interesting point that we saw in the pattern and, and communism is kind of becoming a topic-

David (35:52):

(Laughs).

Tammy (35:53):

… for, (laughs)-

David (35:53):

Okay.

Tammy (35:54):

So it’s like, “Oh snap, it’s coming. It’s definitely coming.” Yeah.

David (35:58):

Okay. Well, I hope not, but, uh, it’s hard to imagine, given-

Tammy (36:01):

(Laughs).

David (36:01):

… that communist countries are so strict about drugs. It’s, it’s not legal, as far as I know, and, and-

Tammy (36:11):

Correct, because the, the narrative is, is-

David (36:13):

… there’s only two communist countries really.

Tammy (36:14):

Well, it’s the communists want our country and our people to be smoking cannabis because then-

David (36:19):

Oh, I see.

Tammy (36:20):

… can take over. That was the narrative-

David (36:22):

Oh, to-

Tammy (36:23):

… back, you know, in the ’30s. Um, yeah.

David (36:25):

Oh.

Tammy (36:25):

And so it’s… That’s what’s next on the pattern wheel, I think.

David (36:28):

Was Trump against cannabis, uh, legalization? I don’t remember. Did he ever say anything about it?

Tammy (36:36):

Uh, he said nothing, but typically, the right is gonna be hard on cannabis and doesn’t want it, and then the left is gonna- while they’re campaigning, they’re all for it, but they’re typically the worst when it comes to enforcement and on the war on drugs. So…

David (36:51):

Yeah. Well, I think that’s gonna be a hard play for them, because I’m sure a lot of Republicans smoke weed, especially this-

Tammy (36:58):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (36:58):

This segment of them that are more in the, uh- not in the cities, outside the cities in, in those communities that are hard hit by the economics of, life today, where it’s high-

Tammy (37:12):

Correct.

David (37:12):

… unemployment and all of that, but even not. It’s filtered down to such an extent at this point ’cause people are doing some of these things that they shouldn’t be doing, (laughs), uh-

Tammy (37:23):

Correct.

David (37:23):

… with regard to opioids and, and things of that-

Tammy (37:26):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (37:26):

… nature, and-

Tammy (37:27):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (37:27):

And I guess that’s one of the big arguments in favor of cannabis, that it is a substitute or a replacement for opioids-

Tammy (37:35):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (37:36):

… and, and you know, and it’s helped people recover from that.

Tammy (37:39):

Correct. Yeah. I mean, our opioid epidemic is incredible and it’s a physician induced epidemic and it’s killing, I believe, half a million Americans a year versus, a natural pain remedy that’s not killing anybody. You physically cannot die from a cannabis overdose, although it may feel like it at the moment. (Laughs).

David (38:02):

(Laughs).

Tammy (38:02):

You will not die. 

 

So it’s interesting to see. There’s so much pushback about the dangers, but it’s not killing anybody and it’s… if we wanna talk about the youth and, and the risks there, well, what about alcohol and, and what it’s already doing to our youth? Why aren’t we addressing that? 

David (38:20):

Yeah.

Tammy (38:21):

… motor vehicular accidents, why aren’t we addressing these things? So I don’t think that cannabis, um… I think the fear that we’re putting around it is unbounded. It, it… Those fears already exist today in society.

David (38:34):

I saw another, uh, episode of one of your shows. It seems like you have a bunch of different things going on, where you talked to- about cannabis and sex-

Tammy (38:43):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

David (38:43):

… and, and-

Tammy (38:43):

Yes.

David (38:45):

… and suggesting that that’s actually helpful for sex.

Tammy (38:50):

Yeah. I mean, I had a really good conversation with a the company’s name is Phoria and then I also had a really good conversation with the sex author and you learn so much. From a scientific standpoint, women, our uterus’ are very complex organs that our doctors can’t seem to figure out, but we learned that we have an abundant amount of endocannabinoid receptors on our uterus, and then you learn that cannabis can help aid in a lot of issues with the uterus and sex.

Tammy (39:23):

using, um, lubricants or just consuming before sex can be so beneficial for a woman. Um, it can actually help us relax, um, and get through it, um, but it’s also a natural aphrodisiac. So, (laughs), there’s so much that goes into that.

David (39:44):

I know it can be painful and difficult as well for-

Tammy (39:47):

Yeah.

David (39:48):

… for women.

Tammy (39:49):

Yeah, for sure. Like endometriosis, so many issues that women deal with, and again, we’re really bad at figuring out mental health conditions and, and uterine issues, but those are the number one and number two places where receptors live. So, uh, it’s kind of interesting as well from a scientific standpoint.

David (40:07):

So overall, if you had to make some predictions about the future, as I’m gonna ask you to do, what would you say is the future of cannabis?

Tammy (40:18):

You know, I’d like to say that we’re five years out from legalization. I think legalization is coming, but I think that’s when the fight will absolutely begin. Right now, we have over 40 states with some kind of cannabis legislation, but when the federal government decides that they’re gonna come in and they’re gonna tax, I think that’s when you’re gonna have pushback. Why now? Why do you want part of our money now when you’ve helped ruin a lot of lives and you fought against us through everything, and now you want your cut of the pie?

Tammy (40:48):

So, (laughs), no. There’s gonna be a lot of pushback with that, and then I think that the propaganda, the Reefer Madness, is coming back and it’s gonna come full force. It’s already started on a lot of local levels. You have politicians saying that cannabis will kill your kids if you legalize, and you have a lot of people who believe those narratives. Right now, I think the fight is about to begin again, and I think for educators and advocates and trappers, um, and speakers for- and defenders of this plan, I think our work is about to really begin.

David (41:23):

Wow, that’s interesting. I didn’t expect you to say that. Well, thank you-

Tammy (41:26):

(Laughs).

David (41:26):

… very much. Tammie Pettigrew, the Cannabis Cutie, thank you for living up to your name in all these different-

Tammy (41:33):

(Laughs).

David (41:34):

… (laughs), all the different aspects and for being on my show.

Tammy (41:37):

Thank you so much, David, for having me.

David (41:41):

All right. Bye. Drive safely.

Tammy (41:45):

(Laughs). Thank you.

 

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